هل العدد الذي يقول ويكون اذا سمعتم سمعا صوت الرب الهكم ناقص ؟ زكريا 6: 15
Holy_bible_1
الشبهة
النجوم كثيره في الكتاب المقدس تدل علي ضياع كلمات من الكتاب المقدس فمثلا
زكريا 6: 15 و البعيدون ياتون و يبنون في هيكل الرب فتعلمون ان رب الجنود ارسلني اليكم و يكون اذا سمعتم سمعا صوت الرب الهكم ****
الرد
شرحت سابقا في ملف
هل وجود نجوم بعد يقول فيه يدل علي ان الكتاب محرف
والحقيقه هذه الشبهة كغيرها من الشبهات التي يتكلم فيها المشككون عن موضوع وجود نجوم بدل كلمات ويقفزون مباشره الي استنتاج ان هناك كلمات ضائعه ووضع نجوم مكانها فبهذا يعتقدون خطأ ان الكتاب المقدس محرف
ولكن الحقيقه اعزائي هذا فهم خطأ منكم لان لايوجد كلمات ضائعه ولا يوجد تحريف وساقدم ادلة علي ذلك
اولا الغالبيه العظمي من الترجمات لم تضع اي علامه نقديه في هذا المكان دليل علي تاكد المترجمين انه لا يوجد شيئ ضائع او مفقود ولكن بعض الترجمات اتبعت نص السبعينية التي لان الكلمه غير واضحت المعني في العبري ففسرتها.
ثانيا ترجمه مثل فانديك وضعت العلامه في بعض الطبعات ليس كعلامة علي كلمات ضائعه ولكن كعلامه لان المترجم يحتاج ان يدقق اكثر في اسلوب الترجمه لتوضيح المعني لان المعني يحتاج توضيح اكثر كترجمة وليس لها اي علاقه باي تعليق نقدي
فاكرر ترجمة فانديك وضعت النجوم او الشرطه ليس لان هناك خطأ او تحريف او حذف ولكن هو علم الاعداد التي يحتاج ان يدقق في ترجمتها لان العدد العبري يحتاج تدقيق ليترجم هذا اللفظ وهو فعل ذلك في عدة مواضع ليراجع لفظ الترجمة اي لكي يحاول فيما بعد ان يختار لفظ اكثر توضيح للمعني العبري
ولتاكيد ذلك ندرسة اصالة العدد من التراجم المختلفة والمخطوطات
التراجم العربي
الفانديك
15 وَالْبَعِيدُونَ يَأْتُونَ وَيَبْنُونَ فِي هَيْكَلِ الرَّبِّ فَتَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّ رَبَّ الْجُنُودِ أَرْسَلَنِي إِلَيْكُمْ. وَيَكُونُ إِذَا سَمِعْتُمْ سَمَعاً صَوْتَ الرَّبِّ إِلَهِكُمْ.
( النسخة الالكترونية لايوجد بها اي علامات )
الحياة
15 ويتوافد قوم من بعيد ليبنوا هيكل الرب، فتدركون أن الرب القدير قد أرسلني إليكم. ويتم هذا كله إن أطعتم صوت الرب إلهكم طاعة كاملة».
( كلمة كاملة هي تفسيرية من ترجمة الحياة التفسيرية )
المشتركة
زك-6-15: ويجيءُ البعيدونَ ويعمَلونَ في بِناءِ هَيكلِ الرّبِّ، فتعلَمونَ أنَّ الرّبَّ القديرَ أرسلَني إليكُم، وسيتِمُّ ذلِكَ إنْ كُنتُم تسمعونَ صوتَ الرّبِّ إلهِكُم كُلَ السَّماعِ.
اليسوعية
15 ويأتي البعيدون ويبنون في هيكل الرب، فتعلمون أن رب القوات أرسلني إليكم، وسيكون ذلك إن كنتم تسمعون صوت الرب إلهكم سماعا.
الكاثوليكية
زك-6-15: ويأتي البَعيدون ويَبْنونَ في هَيكَلِ الرَّبّ، فتَعلَمونَ أَنَّ رَبَّ القُوَّات أَرسَلَني إِلَيكم، وسيَكونُ ذلك إِن كُنتُم تَسمَعونَ صَوتَ الرَّبِّ إِلهِكم سَماعاً.
فلا يوجد اي علامات نقدية ولا اي تعليق علي ضياع اي شيئ
التراجم الانجليزية
Zechariah 6:15
(ACV) And those who are far off shall come and build in the temple of LORD. And ye shall know that LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And [this] shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of LORD your God.
(AKJ) And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And this shall come to pass, if you will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
(ASV) And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of Jehovah; and ye shall know that Jehovah of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of Jehovah your God.
(VW) And those from afar shall come and build in the temple of Jehovah. And you shall know that Jehovah of Hosts has sent me to you. And this shall come to pass if you will give heed and obey the voice of Jehovah your God.
(Bishops) And such as be farre of shall come, and build in ye temple of the lord, that ye may know how that the lord of hoastes hath sent me vnto you: And this shal come to passe, if ye wyll hearken diligently vnto the voyce of the Lorde your God.
(CEV) When people from distant lands come and help build the temple of the LORD All-Powerful, you will know that the LORD is the one who sent me. And this will happen, if you truly obey the LORD your God.
(CLV) And those afar shall come and they shall build the temple of Yahweh. Then shall you know that Yahweh of hosts sent me to you. And it shall come to be if you diligently hearken to the voice of Yahweh, your Elohim."
(Darby) And they that are far off shall come and build at the temple of Jehovah: and ye shall know that Jehovah of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently hearken to the voice of Jehovah your God.
(DRB) And they that are far off, shall come and shall build in the temple of the Lord: and you shall know that the Lord of hosts sent me to you. But this shall come to pass, if hearing you will hear the voice of the Lord your God.
(ESV) "And those who are far off shall come and help to build the temple of the LORD. And you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And this shall come to pass, if you will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God."
(ERV) People living far away will come and build the LORD'S Temple. Then you will know for sure that the LORD All-Powerful sent me to you people. All these things will happen if you do what the LORD your God says.
(EVID) And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And this shall come to pass, if you will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
(FDB) Et ceux qui sont éloignés viendront et bâtiront au temple de l'Éternel; et vous saurez que l'Éternel des armées m'a envoyé vers vous. Et cela arrivera, si vous écoutez fidèlement la voix de l'Éternel, votre Dieu.
(FLS) Ceux qui sont éloignés viendront et travailleront au temple de l'Éternel; et vous saurez que l'Éternel des armées m'a envoyé vers vous. Cela arrivera, si vous écoutez la voix de l'Éternel, votre Dieu.
(Geneva) And they that are farre off, shal come and build in the Temple of the Lord, & ye shal know, that the Lorde of hostes hath sent me vnto you; this shall come to passe, if ye will obey the voyce of the Lord your God.
(GLB) Und es werden kommen von fern, die am Tempel des HERRN bauen werden. Da werdet ihr erfahren, daß mich der HERR Zebaoth zu euch gesandt hat. Und das soll geschehen, so ihr gehorchen werdet der Stimme des HERRN, eures Gottes.
(GNB) Men who live far away will come and help to rebuild the Temple of the LORD. And when it is rebuilt, you will know that the LORD Almighty sent me to you. This will all happen if you fully obey the commands of the LORD your God.
(GW) Those who are far away will come and rebuild the LORD'S temple. Then you will know the LORD of Armies has sent me to you. This will happen if you obey the LORD your God completely.'
(HCSB-r) People who are far off will come and build the Lord's temple, and you will know that the Lord of Hosts has sent Me to you. This will happen when you fully obey the Lord your God."
(HNV) Those who are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD; and you shall know that the LORD of Armies has sent me to you. This will happen, if you will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
(csb) People who are far off will come and build the Lord's temple, and you will know that the Lord of Hosts has sent Me to you. This will happen when you fully obey the Lord your God."
(IAV) And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of ADONAI, and ye shall know that ADONAI-Tzvaot hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of ADONAI your Elohim.
(ISRAV) And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of ADONAI, and ye shall know that ADONAI-Tzvaot hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of ADONAI your Elohim.
(JST) And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the Lord, and ye shall know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God.
(JOSMTH) And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the Lord, and ye shall know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God.
(KJ2000) And they that are far off shall come and build the temple of the LORD, and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if you will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
(KJV+TVM) And they that are far offH7350 shall comeH935 [H8799] and buildH1129 [H8804] in the templeH1964 of the LORDH3068, and ye shall knowH3045 [H8804] that the LORDH3068 of hostsH6635 hath sentH7971 [H8804] me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligentlyH8085 [H8800] obeyH8085 [H8799] the voiceH6963 of the LORDH3068 your GodH430.
(KJV) And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
(KJV+) And they that are far offH7350 shall comeH935 and buildH1129 in the templeH1964 of the LORD,H3068 and ye shall knowH3045 thatH3588 the LORDH3068 of hostsH6635 hath sentH7971 me untoH413 you. And this shall come to pass,H1961 ifH518 ye will diligently obeyH8085 H8085 the voiceH6963 of the LORDH3068 your God.H430
(KJV-1611) And they that are farre off, shall come and build in the Temple of the Lord, and ye shall knowe that the Lord of hosts hath sent me vnto you. And this shall come to passe, if ye will diligently obey the voyce of the Lord your God.
(KJV21) And those who are far off shall come and build the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent Me unto you. And this shall come to pass if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God."
(KJVA) And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
(LBP) And those who are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And this shall come to pass if you will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
(LITV) And the distant ones shall come and build in the temple of Jehovah. And you shall know that Jehovah of Hosts has sent me to you. And this shall be, if listening you will listen to the voice of Jehovah your God.
(MKJV) And the distant ones shall come and build in the temple of Jehovah, and you shall know that Jehovah of Hosts has sent me to you. And this shall be, if you will carefully obey the voice of Jehovah your God.
(nas) " (149) Those who are far off will come and build [39] the temple of the LORD." Then you will know (150) that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And it will take place if you completely obey (151) the LORD your God.
(NCV) People living far away will come and build the Temple of the Lord. Then you will know the Lord All-Powerful has sent me to you. This will happen if you completely obey the Lord your God."
(NET.) Then those who are far away will come and build the temple of the Lord so that you may know that the sovereign Lord has sent me to you. This will all come to pass if you completely obey the voice of the Lord your God." ' "
(NET) Then those who are far away15 will come and build the temple of the Lord so that you may know that the sovereign Lord has sent me to you. This will all come to pass if you completely obey the voice of the Lord your God." ' "
(NAB-A) And they who are from afar shall come and build the temple of the LORD, and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And if you heed carefully the voice of the LORD your God....
(NIVUK) Those who are far away will come and help to build the temple of the LORD, and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you. This will happen if you diligently obey the LORD your God.
(NLV) Those who are far away will come to build the house of the Lord. Then you will know that the Lord of All has sent me to you. This will happen if you are careful to obey the Lord your God.'
(nrs) Those who are far off shall come and help to build the temple of the Lord; and you shall know that the Lord of hosts has sent me to you. This will happen if you diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God.
(NWT) And those who are far away will come and actually build in the temple of Jehovah." And YOU people will have to know that Jehovah of armies himself has sent me to YOU. And it must occur-if YOU will without fail listen to the voice of Jehovah YOUR God.'"
(RNKJV) And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of YHVH, and ye shall know that YHVH of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of YHVH your Elohim.
(RV) And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
(TMB) And those who are far off shall come and build the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent Me unto you. And this shall come to pass if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God."
(TRC) that ye may know, how that the LORD of Hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD your God.
(UPDV) And those who are far off will come and build in the temple of Yahweh; and you+ will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent me to you+. And [this] will come to pass, if you+ will diligently obey the voice of Yahweh your+ God.
(Webster) And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me to you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
(Wycliffe) And thei that ben fer, schulen come, and bilde in the temple of the Lord; and ye schulen wite, that the Lord of oostis sente me to you. Sotheli this thing schal be, if bi heryng ye schulen here the vois of youre Lord God.
(YLT) And the far-off come in, and they have built in the temple of Jehovah, and ye have known that Jehovah of Hosts hath sent me unto you, yea, it hath come to pass, if ye do certainly hearken to the voice of Jehovah your God.'
فكل التراجم تقريبا اكدت علي اصالة العدد ولم يعلقوا بان لايوجد لا حزف ولا ضياع ولا غيره
ترجمة واحده تفسيرية كتبت
(BBE) And those who are far away will come and be builders in the Temple of the Lord, and it will be clear to you that the Lord of armies has sent me to you.
فتاكدنا انه لايوجد اي شيئ ضائع في العدد
وعلي سبيل المثال ترجمات تضع شواهد وتعليقات نقدية
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And they [that are] far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. And [this] shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God. |
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"Even those from afar shall come and build the temple of the LORD. Then you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me to you. And this shall come to pass if you diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God." |
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People will come from distant lands to rebuild the Temple of the LORD. And when this happens, you will know that my messages have been from the LORD of Heaven's Armies. All this will happen if you carefully obey what the LORD your God says. |
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Those who are far away will come and help to build the temple of the LORD, and you will know that the LORD Almighty has sent me to you. This will happen if you diligently obey the LORD your God." |
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"And those who are far off shall come and help to build the temple of the LORD. And you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And this shall come to pass, if you will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God." |
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Y los que están lejos vendrán y ayudarán a edificar el templo de Jehová, y conoceréis que Jehová de los ejércitos me ha enviado a vosotros. Y esto sucederá si oyereis obedientes la voz de Jehová vuestro Dios. |
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"Those who are far off will come and *build the temple of the LORD." Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And it will take place if you completely obey the LORD your God. |
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"And those who are far off shall come and help to build the temple of the LORD; and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And this shall come to pass, if you will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God." |
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And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of Jehovah; and ye shall know that Jehovah of hosts hath sent me unto you. And [this] shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of Jehovah your God. |
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And the far-off come in, and they have built in the temple of Jehovah, and ye have known that Jehovah of Hosts hath sent me unto you, yea, it hath come to pass, if ye do certainly hearken to the voice of Jehovah your God.' |
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And they that are far off shall come and build at the temple of Jehovah: and ye shall know that Jehovah of hosts hath sent me unto you. And [this] shall come to pass, if ye will diligently hearken to the voice of Jehovah your God. |
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And they [that are] far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me to you. And [this] shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God. |
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Those who are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD; and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. This will happen, if you will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God." |
التراجم القديمة
الفلجاتا
من القرن الرابع للقديس جيروم
(clVulgate) Et qui procul sunt, venient, et ædificabunt in templo Domini: et scietis quia Dominus exercituum misit me ad vos. Erit autem hoc, si auditu audieritis vocem Domini Dei vestri.
(Vulgate) et qui procul sunt venient et aedificabunt in templo Domini et scietis quia Dominus exercituum misit me ad vos erit autem hoc si auditu audieritis vocem Domini Dei vestri
And they that are far off, shall come and shall build in the temple of the Lord: and you shall know that the Lord of hosts sent me to you. But this shall come to pass, if hearing you will hear the voice of the Lord your God.
وايضا البشيتا من القرن الرابع
(Lamsa) And those who are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And this shall come to pass if you will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
وغيرها من التراجم مثل السريانية القديمة
وايضا السبعينية
(LXX) καὶ οἱ μακρὰν ἀπ᾿ αὐτῶν ἥξουσιν καὶ οἰκοδομήσουσιν ἐν τῷ οἴκῳ κυρίου, καὶ γνώσεσθε διότι κύριος παντοκράτωρ ἀπέσταλκέν με πρὸς ὑμᾶς· καὶ ἔσται, ἐὰν εἰσακούοντες εἰσακούσητε τῆς φωνῆς κυρίου τοῦ θεοῦ ὑμῶν.
(Brenton) And they that are far from them shall come and build in the house of the Lord, and ye shall know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you: and this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord your God.
اذا فهمنا ان الموضوع ليس هناك ضياع في ترجمة فانديك و حتي العلامة هي ليست علامة نقدية وبقية التراجم لم يضعوا لاعلامة نقدية ولا تعليق ان هناك شيئ ضائع
النصوص العبري
זכריה 6:15 Hebrew OT: BHS (Consonants Only)
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ורחוקים יבאו ובנו בהיכל יהוה וידעתם כי־יהוה צבאות שלחני אליכם והיה אם־שמוע תשמעון בקול יהוה אלהיכם׃ ס
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זכריה 6:15 Hebrew OT: Westminster Leningrad Codex
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וּרְחֹוקִ֣ים ׀ יָבֹ֗אוּ וּבָנוּ֙ בְּהֵיכַ֣ל יְהוָ֔ה וִידַעְתֶּ֕ם כִּֽי־יְהוָ֥ה צְבָאֹ֖ות שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְהָיָה֙ אִם־שָׁמֹ֣ועַ תִּשְׁמְע֔וּן בְּקֹ֖ול יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵיכֶֽם׃ ס
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זכריה 6:15 Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants Only)
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ורחוקים ׀ יבאו ובנו בהיכל יהוה וידעתם כי־יהוה צבאות שלחני אליכם והיה אם־שמוע תשמעון בקול יהוה אלהיכם׃ ס
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זכריה 6:15 Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants & Vowels)
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וּרְחֹוקִים ׀ יָבֹאוּ וּבָנוּ בְּהֵיכַל יְהוָה וִידַעְתֶּם כִּי־יְהוָה צְבָאֹות שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם וְהָיָה אִם־שָׁמֹועַ תִּשְׁמְעוּן בְּקֹול יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם׃ ס
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זכריה 6:15 Hebrew OT: Aleppo Codex
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טו ורחוקים יבאו ובנו בהיכל יהוה וידעתם כי יהוה צבאות שלחני אליכם והיה אם שמוע תשמעון בקול יהוה אלהיכם {ס}
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זכריה 6:15 Hebrew Bible
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ורחוקים יבאו ובנו בהיכל יהוה וידעתם כי יהוה צבאות שלחני אליכם והיה אם שמוע תשמעון בקול יהוה אלהיכם׃
(BHS) וּרְחֹוקִים יָבֹאוּ וּבָנוּ בְּהֵיכַל יְהוָה וִידַעְתֶּם כִּי־יְהוָה צְבָאֹות שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם וְהָיָה אִם־שָׁמֹועַ תִּשְׁמְעוּן בְּקֹול יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם׃
(BHS+) וְּרְחֹוקִים7350 יָבֹאוְּ935 וְּבָנוְּבְּהֵיכַל1964 יְהוָה3068 וִידַעְתֶּם כִּי־יְהוָה3068 צְבָאֹות6635 שְׁלָחַנִי7971 אֲלֵיכֶם וְהָיָה3068 אִמ־שָׁמֹועַתִּשְׁמְעוְּן8085 בְּקֹול6963 יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם
(HOT) ורחוקים יבאו ובנו בהיכל יהוה וידעתם כי־יהוה צבאות שׁלחני אליכם והיה אם־שׁמוע תשׁמעון בקול יהוה אלהיכם׃
(HOT+) ורחוקיםH7350 יבאוH935 ובנוH1129 בהיכלH1964 יהוהH3068 וידעתםH3045 כיH3588 יהוהH3068 צבאותH6635 שׁלחניH7971 אליכםH413 והיהH1961 אםH518 שׁמועH8085 תשׁמעוןH8085 בקולH6963 יהוהH3068 אלהיכם׃H430
(IHOT+) ורחוקיםH7350 And they far off יבאוH935 shall come ובנוH1129 and build בהיכלH1964 in the temple יהוהH3068 of the LORD, וידעתםH3045 and ye shall know כיH3588 that יהוהH3068 the LORD צבאותH6635 of hosts שׁלחניH7971 hath sent אליכםH413 me unto והיהH1961 you. And shall come to pass, אםH518 if שׁמועH8085 ye will diligently obey תשׁמעוןH8085 ye will diligently obey בקולH6963 the voice יהוהH3068 of the LORD אלהיכם׃H430 your God.
(JPS) And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. And it shall come to pass, if ye will diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD your God
فكل النسخ العبري اكدت هذا المقطع
وايضا المخطوطات مثل لننجراد وغيرها من المخطوطات تؤكد اصالة العدد
فاعتقد الصوره اتضحت جليا فالمقطع اصيل ولا خلاف عليه ولا يوجد اي جزء مفقود منه و التراجم وضعته كامل بدون اي علامه نقدية
والمجد لله دائما