سفر الرؤيا 17 الوحش
Holy_bible_1
الشبهة
هل هذا العدد محرف ؟
الرد
|
الْوَحْشُ الَّذِي رَأَيْتَ، كَانَ وَلَيْسَ الآنَ، وَهُوَ عَتِيدٌ أَنْ يَصْعَدَ مِنَ الْهَاوِيَةِ وَيَمْضِيَ إِلَى الْهَلاَكِ. وَسَيَتَعَجَّبُ السَّاكِنُونَ عَلَى الأَرْضِ، الَّذِينَ لَيْسَتْ أَسْمَاؤُهُمْ مَكْتُوبَةً فِي سِفْرِ الْحَيَاةِ مُنْذُ تَأْسِيسِ الْعَالَمِ، حِينَمَا يَرَوْنَ الْوَحْشَ أَنَّهُ كَانَ وَلَيْسَ الآنَ، مَعَ أَنَّهُ كَائِنٌ. |
الحياة
8 هذا الوحش كان موجودا، وهو غير موجود الآن، ولكنه على وشك أن يطلع من الهاوية ويمضي إلى الهلاك. وسيدهش سكان الأرض الذين لم تكتب أسماؤهم منذ تأسيس العالم في سجل الحياة، عندما يرون الوحش، لأنه كان موجودا، ثم أصبح غير موجود، وسيعود!
السارة
8 والوحش الذي رأيته كان وما عاد كائنا. سيصعد بعد قليل من الهاوية ويمضي إلى الهلاك. وسيتعجب سكان الأرض الذين أسماؤهم غير مكتوبة منذ بدء العالم في كتاب الحياة عندما يرون الوحش، لأنه كان وما عاد كائنا وسيظهر ثانية.
اليسوعيه
8 (( الوحش الذي رأيته كان ولكنه زال عن الوجود. سيخرج من الهاوية ويمضي إلى الهلاك. وأهل الأرض الذين لم يكتب اسمهم في سفر الحياة منذ إنشاء العالم سيعجبون إذ يرون الوحش، لأنه كان وزال عن الوجود، ثم يعود.
المشتركه
رؤ-17-8: والوَحشُ الّذي رأيتَهُ كانَ وما عادَ كائِنًا. سَيصعَدُ بَعدَ قليلٍ مِنَ الهاوِيَةِ ويَمضي إلى الهلاكِ. وسيَتَعجَّبُ سُكّانُ الأرضِ الّذين َ أسماؤُهُم غَيرُ مَكتوبَةٍ مُنذُ بَدءِ العالَمِ في كِتابِ الحياةِ عِندَما يَرَوْنَ الوَحشَ، لأنَّهُ كانَ وما عادَ كائِنًا وسيَظهَرُ ثانِيَةً.
الكاثوليكية
رؤ-17-8: (( الوَحشُ الَّذي رَأَيتَه كانَ ولكِنَّه زالَ عنِ الوجود. سيَخرُجُ مِنَ الهاوِيَةِ ويَمْضي إلى الهَلاك. وأَهلُ الأَرضِ الَّذينَ لم يُكتَبِ اسمُهم في سِفرِ الحَياةِ مُنذُ إِنْشاءِ العالَمِ سيَعجَبونَ إِذ يَرَونَ الوَحش، لأَنَّه كانَ وزالَ عنِ الوُجود، ثُمَّ يَعود.
ونلاحظ ان الترجمات متشابهة
الانجليزي
King
James
Bible
................................................................................
The
beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the
bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the
earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life
from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that
was, and is not, and
yet
is.
................................................................................
American
King James
Version
................................................................................
The
beast that you saw was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the
bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the
earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life
from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that
was, and is not, and
yet
is.
................................................................................
American
Standard
Version
................................................................................
The
beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out
of the abyss, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the
earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book
of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast,
how that he was, and is not, and
shall
come.
................................................................................
Bible
in Basic
English
................................................................................
The
beast which you saw was, and is not; and is about to come up out of
the great deep, and to go into destruction. And those who are on the
earth, whose names have not been put in the book of life from the
first, will be full of wonder when they see the beast, that he was,
and is not, and
still will
be.
................................................................................
Douay-Rheims
Bible
................................................................................
The
beast, which thou sawest, was, and is not, and shall come up out of
the bottomless pit, and go into destruction: and the inhabitants on
the earth (whose names are not written in the book of life from the
foundation of the world) shall wonder, seeing the beast that was, and
is not.
................................................................................
Darby
Bible
Translation
................................................................................
The
beast which thou sawest was, and is not, and is about to come up out
of the abyss and go into destruction: and they who dwell on the
earth, whose names are not written from the founding of the world in
the book of life, shall wonder, seeing the beast, that it was, and is
not, and
shall be
present.
................................................................................
English
Revised
Version
................................................................................
The
beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and is about to come up out
of the abyss, and to go into perdition. And they that dwell on the
earth shall wonder, they whose name hath not been written in the book
of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast,
how that he was, and is not, and
shall
come.
................................................................................
GOD'S
WORD® Translation
(©1995)
................................................................................
"You
saw the beast which once was, is no longer, and will come from the
bottomless pit and go to its destruction. Those living on earth,
whose names were not written in the Book of Life when the world was
created, will be surprised when they see the beast because it was, is
no longer, and
will come
again.
................................................................................
Tyndale
New
Testament
................................................................................
The
beast that thou seest, was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the
bottomless pit, and shall go into perdition, and they that dwell on
the earth shall wonder (whose names are not written in the book of
life from he beginning of the world) when they behold the beast that
was, and
is
not.
................................................................................
Weymouth
New
Testament
................................................................................
"The
Wild Beast which you have seen was, and is not, and yet is destined
to re-ascend, before long, out of the bottomless pit and go his way
into perdition. And the inhabitants of the earth will be filled with
amazement--all whose names are not in the Book of Life, having been
recorded there ever since the creation of the world--when they see
the Wild Beast: because he was, and is not, and
yet is to
come.
................................................................................
Webster's
Bible
Translation
................................................................................
The
beast that thou sawest, was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the
bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the
earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life
from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that
was, and is not, and
yet
is.
................................................................................
World
English
Bible
................................................................................
The
beast that you saw was, and is not; and is about to come up out of
the abyss and to go into destruction. Those who dwell on the earth
and whose names have not been written in the book of life from the
foundation of the world will marvel when they see that the beast was,
and is not, and
shall be
present.
................................................................................
Young's
Literal
Translation
................................................................................
'The
beast that thou didst see: it was, and it is not; and it is about to
come up out of the abyss, and to go away to destruction, and wonder
shall those dwelling upon the earth, whose names have not been
written upon the scroll of the life from the foundation of the world,
beholding the beast that was, and is not, although
it is.
New
American Standard Bible
(©1995)
................................................................................
"The
beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of
the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth,
whose name has not been written in the book of life from the
foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he
was and is not and
will come.
اليوناني
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ
ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17:8 Greek NT: WH / NA27 / UBS4
................................................................................
τὸ
θηρίον ὃ εἶδες ἦν καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν καὶ
μέλλει ἀναβαίνειν ἐκ τῆς ἀβύσσου καὶ
εἰς ἀπώλειαν ὑπάγει, καὶ θαυμασθήσονται
οἱ κατοικοῦντες ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς, ὧν οὐ
γέγραπται τὸ ὄνομα ἐπὶ τὸ βιβλίον
τῆς ζωῆς ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου,
βλεπόντων τὸ θηρίον ὅτι ἦν καὶ οὐκ
ἔστιν καὶ παρέσται
................................................................................
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ
ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17:8 Greek NT: Tischendorf 8th Ed. with
Diacritics
................................................................................
ὁ
θηρίον ὅς ὁράω εἰμί καί οὐ εἰμί καί
μέλλω ἀναβαίνω ἐκ ὁ ἄβυσσος καί εἰς
ἀπώλεια ὑπάγω καί θαυμάζω ὁ κατοικέω
ἐπί ὁ γῆ ὅς οὐ γράφω ὁ ὄνομα ἐπί ὁ
βιβλίον ὁ ζωή ἀπό καταβολή κόσμος βλέπω
ὁ θηρίον ὅτι εἰμί καί οὐ εἰμί καί
πάρειμι
................................................................................
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ
ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17:8 Greek NT: Greek Orthodox
Church
................................................................................
Τὸ
θηρίον ὃ εἶδες, ἦν καὶ οὐκ ἔστι, καὶ
μέλλει ἀναβαίνειν ἐκ τῆς ἀβύσσου καὶ
εἰς ἀπώλειαν ὑπάγειν· καὶ θαυμάσονται
οἱ κατοικοῦντες ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς, ὧν οὐ
γέγραπται τὸ ὄνομα ἐπὶ τὸ βιβλίον
τῆς ζωῆς ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου,
βλεπόντων τὸ θηρίον ὅτι ἦν, καὶ οὐκ
ἔστι καὶ
παρέσται.
................................................................................
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ
ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17:8 Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus (1550, with
accents)
................................................................................
θηρίον
ὃ εἶδες ἦν καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν καὶ μέλλει
ἀναβαίνειν ἐκ τῆς ἀβύσσου καὶ εἰς
ἀπώλειαν ὑπάγειν· καὶ θαυμάσονται οἱ
κατοικοῦντες ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς ὧν οὐ
γέγραπται τὰ ὀνόματα ἐπὶ τὸ βιβλίον
τῆς ζωῆς ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου βλεπόντες
τὸ θηρίον ὃ τι ἦν καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν καὶπερ
ἔστιν
................................................................................
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ
ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17:8 Greek NT: Westcott/Hort with
Diacritics
................................................................................
τὸ
θηρίον ὁ εἶδες ἦν καὶ οὐκ ἐστιν καὶ
μέλλει ἀναβαίνειν ἐκ τῆς ἀβύσσου καὶ
εἰς ἀπώλειαν ὑπάγει, καὶ θαυμασθήσονται
οἱ κατοικοῦντες ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς, ὧν οὐ
γέγραπται τὸ ὄνομα ἐπὶ τὸ βιβλίον
τῆς ζωῆς ἀπὸ καταβολῆς κόσμου,
βλεπόντων τὸ θηρίον ὅτι ἦν καὶ οὐκ
ἔστιν καὶ παρέσται
................................................................................
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ
ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17:8 Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text
(2000)
................................................................................
το
θηριον ο ειδες ην και ουκ εστιν και
μελλει αναβαινειν εκ της αβυσσου και
εις απωλειαν υπαγειν και θαυμασονται
οι κατοικουντες επι της γης ων ου
γεγραπται τα ονοματα επι το βιβλιον της
ζωης απο καταβολης κοσμου βλεποντων
οτι ην το θηριον και ουκ εστιν και
παρεσται
................................................................................
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ
ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17:8 Greek
NT:
Textus
Receptus
(1550)
................................................................................
θηριον
ο ειδες ην και ουκ εστιν και μελλει
αναβαινειν εκ της αβυσσου και εις
απωλειαν υπαγειν και θαυμασονται οι
κατοικουντες επι της γης ων ου γεγραπται
τα ονοματα επι το βιβλιον της ζωης απο
καταβολης κοσμου βλεποντες το θηριον
ο τι ην και ουκ εστιν καιπερ
εστιν
thērion
o
eides
ēn
kai
ouk
estin
kai
mellei
anabainein
ek
tēs
abussou
kai
eis
apōleian
upagein
kai
thaumasontai
oi
katoikountes
epi
tēs
gēs
ōn
ou
gegraptai
ta
onomata
epi
to
biblion
tēs
zōēs
apo
katabolēs
kosmou
blepontes
to
thērion
o
ti
ēn
kai
ouk
estin
kaiper
estin
................................................................................
ΑΠΟΚΑΛΥΨΙΣ
ΙΩΑΝΝΟΥ 17:8 Greek
NT:
Textus
Receptus
(1894)
................................................................................
το
θηριον ο ειδες ην και ουκ εστιν και
μελλει αναβαινειν εκ της αβυσσου και
εις απωλειαν υπαγειν και θαυμασονται
οι κατοικουντες επι της γης ων ου
γεγραπται τα ονοματα επι το βιβλιον της
ζωης απο καταβολης κοσμου βλεποντες το
θηριον ο τι ην και ουκ εστιν καιπερ
εστιν
والترجمات المهمة
القديمة من القرن الرابع
البشيتا
الارامي
Revelation
17:8 Aramaic NT:
Peshitta
................................................................................
ܚܝܘܬܐ
ܕܚܙܝܬ
ܐܝܬܝܗ
ܗܘܬ
ܘܠܝܬܝܗ
ܥܬܝܕܐ
ܕܬܤܩ
ܡܢ
ܝܡܐ
ܘܠܐܒܕܢܐ
ܐܙܠܐ
ܘܢܬܕܡܪܘܢ
ܥܡܪܝ
ܥܠ
ܐܪܥܐ
ܗܢܘܢ
ܕܠܐ
ܟܬܝܒܝܢ
ܫܡܗܝܗܘܢ
ܒܤܦܪܐ
ܕܚܝܐ
ܡܢ
ܬܪܡܝܬܗ
ܕܥܠܡܐ
ܕܚܙܝܢ
ܚܝܘܬܐ
ܕܐܝܬܝܗ
ܗܘܬ
ܘܠܝܬܝܗ
ܘܩܪܒܬ
܀
وايضا الفلجاتا للقديس جيروم
المخطوط الصعيدي القبطي الي تعود للقرن الرابع الميلادي
وترجمتها
السينائية
kai palain parestai
الفاتيكانية
καὶ παρέσται
والاسكندرية
And will be present
καὶ παρέσται
kai parestai
A P syr
or , and again will be present
kai palain parestai
X*
or, and is present
kai parestain
x2 , maj a group
or, and yet is
καὶπερ ἔστιν
kaiper estain
received text
ملحوظه مهمة في المقاطع الصوتيه
Kai per estain
Kaiper estain = and yet is ,,,,, kai parestain = and is present
The difference between parestain and parestai
ويقول العالم روجر اومانسون
Roger L. Omanson
Instead of the present indicative verb(he goes) , some manuscripts have the infinitive form( to go) . In Greek manuscripts, final ne is often represented merely by a horizontal stroke over the preceding letter, so the difference in spelling between verb and infinitive was very slight. In this context, the present indicative is the more difficult reading, which copyists would have tended to change to the infinitive after (be about to). The variant has little significance as far as the meaning. The indicative states that the beast is going to destruction, while the infinitive states what he is about to do.
بدل وجود الفعل هو مستمر بعض المخطوطات تحتوي علي المصدر (اتي). في المخطوطات اليونانية حرف الني الي في اخر الكلمة دائما يتمثل بوجود علامه افقية فوق الحرف, لذلك الفرق بين استهجاء الفعل والمصدر فرق بسيط جدا. في هذا العدد, وجود حرف الني يجعلها اصعب في القراءه , الذي جعل النساخ يحولوها للمصدر (ياتي فيما بعد). هذا الفرق له تاسير لا يذكر في بعد المعني . فالصفة تعبر عن ان الوحش سوف يستمر في التخريب ولكن صيغة المصدر يعبر عن ما سيفعله قريبا.
A textual guide of the Greek new testament, page 544
ويقول العالم بروس متزجر
17.8 u`pa,gei {B}
Orthographically u`pa,gei (A 1611 2053 al) differs very little from u`pa,gein (a P 046 051 1006 1854 al), for in Greek manuscripts final n is often represented merely by a horizontal stroke over the preceding letter. In the context the present indicative is the more difficult reading, which copyists would have been prone to alter to the infinitive after me,llei.
في المخطوطات اليوناني حرف الني يعبر عنه بشرطه افقيه فوق الحرف الاخير. في هذا العدد وجود الحرف يجعل القراءه اصعب هذا السبب الذي جعل النساخ يغيروا من الفعل للمصدر
Metzger, Textual Commentary on NT
اقوال الاباء واقتباساتهم
يقول القديس ايرينيؤس في رسالته ردا علي هيريسيس
4. But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: the name, however, is suppressed, because it is not worthy of being proclaimed by the Holy Spirit. For if it had been declared by Him, he (Antichrist) might perhaps continue for a long period. But now as “he was, and is not, and shall ascend out of the abyss, and goes into perdition,”47084708 Rev. xvii. 8. as one who has no existence; so neither has his name been declared, for the name of that which does not exist is not proclaimed. But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.”47094709 Matt. viii. 11.
Ante-nicene fathers, volume 1 page 560, Irenaeus against Heresies
ويقول القديس هيرماس من القرن الثاني الميلادي
I see a mighty beast like a whale, and out of its mouth fiery locusts134134 [Rev. ix. 3.] proceeded. But the size of that beast was about a hundred feet, and it had a head like an urn.135135 Comp. Rev. xi. 7, xii. 3, 4, xiii. 1, xvii. 8, xxii. 2. [The beast was “like a whale” in size and proportion. It was not a sea-monster. This whole passage is Dantesque. See Inferno, canto xxxi., and, for the colours, canto xvii. 15.] I began to weep, and to call on the Lord to rescue me from it. Then I remembered the word which I had heard, “Doubt not, O Hermas.” Clothed, therefore, my brethren, with faith in the Lord136136 God.—Lips., Vat. and remembering the great things which He had taught me, I boldly faced the beast. Now that beast came on with such noise and force, that it could itself have destroyed a city.137137 The Vat. adds: with a stroke. I came near it, and the monstrous beast stretched itself out on the ground, and showed nothing but its tongue, and did not stir at all until I had passed by it. Now the beast had four colours on its head—black, then fiery and bloody, then golden, and lastly white.
Ante-niecene fathers, volume 2 page 18, The Pastor of Hermas
ويقول القديس جيروم
Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers
Series II
Volume VI. Jerome: Letters and Select Works
Letter XLVI. Paula and Eustochium to Marcella.
12. Read the apocalypse of John, and consider what is sung therein of the woman arrayed in purple, and of the blasphemy written upon her brow, of the seven mountains, of the many waters, and of the end of Babylon.10041004 Rev. xvii. 4, 5, 9; i. 15; xvii; xviii. “Come out of her, my people,” so the Lord says, “that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”10051005 Rev. xviii. 4. Turn back also to Jeremiah and pay heed to what he has written of like import: “Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul.”10061006 Jer. li. 6. For “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit.”10071007 Rev. xviii. 2. It is true that Rome has a holy church, trophies of apostles and martyrs, a true confession of Christ.
والمعني المقصود به
آيات 8،7 "ثم قال لي الملاك لماذا تعجبت انا اقول لك سر المراة و الوحش الحامل لها الذي له السبعة الرؤوس و العشرة القرون. الوحش الذي رايت كان و ليس الان و هو عتيد ان يصعد من الهاوية و يمضي الى الهلاك و سيتعجب الساكنون على الارض الذين ليست اسماؤهم مكتوبة في سفر الحياة منذ تاسيس العالم حينما يرون الوحش انه كان و ليس الان مع انه كائن".
الوحش = هو الشيطان
كان = كان له سلطان على البشر، وكان يشتكى عليهم ويأسرهم، ويأخذ نفوسهم للجحيم عند موتهم
وليس الآن = فالمسيح بصليبه قيده ألف سنة (رؤ2:20) وما عاد له سلطان علينا بعد أن حررنا المسيح بفدائه (لو17:10-19) + (كو15،14:2). إذا المؤمن الآن صار له سلطان على إبليس، وليس لإبليس سلطان عليه وهو عتيد أن يصعد من الجحيم = فى نهاية الألف سنة لابد أن يحل إبليس زمانا يسيرا (رؤ3:20) وسيكون هذا فى مدة ضد المسيح والنبى الكذاب.
ويمضى إلى الهلاك = حين يطرح فى البحيرة المتقدة بالنار (رؤ10:20).
سيتعجب = أولاد الله لهم سلطان على إبليس وعلى شهواتهم ويحتقرون ملذات هذا العالم. (انظر المزيد عن هذا الموضوع هنا في موقع الأنبا تكلا في أقسام المقالات و التفاسير الأخرى). وهذا الموقف سيجعل الآخرين = الذين ليست أسماؤهم مكتوبة فى سفر الحياة = هؤلاء سيتعجبون من هذا السلطان، فمن لا يعرف سر الصليب سيتعجب من سلطان أولاد الله.
ويوضح ان ان الشيطان قيد وبعد ذلك سيحل قليلا
والمجد لله دائما