الرجوع إلى لائحة المقالات الرجوع إلى هل العدد الذي يقول ليتني اجد نعمه في عينك محرف بشهادة اليسوعية
تك 30: 27هل العدد الذي يقول ليتني اجد نعمه في عينك محرف بشهادة اليسوعية ؟ تكوين 30: 27
Holy_bible_1
الشبهة
الرد
في البداية كما ذكرت في موضوعات سابقة التعليقات النقدية الهامشية الموجوده في الترجمه اليسوعية هي لم يقم بها الاباء اليسوعيين الذين قاموا بالترجمة في 1897 م فترجمتهم الاصلية بدون شواهد ولكن هذه الشواهد اضيفت لاحقا تقريبا سنة 1989 م . وايضا كما وضحت هي تعليقات نقدية راديكالية مرفوض قدر كبير منها لانها تقدم فكر لايسنده الكثير من المخطوطات ولا اقوال الاباء بل عادة تبحث عن الرائي الشاذ الفردي المرفوض وتقدمه علي انه الاصل او تقدم معلومه صحيه ولكن تضعها في صورة مرفوضه ولهذا الاضافات النقديه لا يعتد بها ولا تمثل رائي الاباء اليسوعيين بل هذه التعليقات هي فقط نقديه راديكاليه مخالفه دائما للرائ التقليدي
ولهذا لانها تناسب هواهم وفكرهم الغير حيادي المرفوض فتعليق اليسوعية هو المصدر الذي يستعين به المشككين دائما
فبدراسة اصالة العدد سنتاكد ان تعليق اليسوعية كالعادة لايستند الي اي دليل ان العدد ناقص او محرف ولتاكيد اصالة العدد
التراجم المختلفة
التراجم العربي
الفانديك
27 فَقَالَ لَهُ لابَانُ: «لَيْتَنِي اجِدُ نِعْمَةً فِي عَيْنَيْكَ. قَدْ تَفَاءَلْتُ فَبَارَكَنِي الرَّبُّ بِسَبَبِكَ».
الحياة
27 فقال له لابان: «إن كنت قد حظيت برضاك فأرجوك أن تمكث معي، لأنني عرفت بالتفاؤل بالغيب أن الرب قد باركني بفضلك».
( والحياة كترجمه تفسيرية اضافة تعبير تمكث معي لتوضيح المعني اكثر )
المشتركة
27 فقال له لابان: ((إن كنت راضيا علي فأقم عندي. أنت فأل خير والرب باركني بسببك.
اليسوعية
27 فقال له لابان: (( إذا نلت حظوة في عينيك فقد عرفت بالفراسة أن الرب قد باركني بسببك)).
الكاثوليكية
تك-30-27: فقالَ لَه لابان: ( إِذا نِلتُ حُظوَةً في عَينَيكَ فقَد عَرَفتُ بِالفِراسةِ أَنَّ الرَّبَّ قد بارَكَني بِسَبَبِكَ).
فنري ان التراجم العربي وضعت النص ولا يوجد تعليق علي ان هناك شيئ مفوق او محرف الا في اليسوعية فقط وبدون دليل
التراجم الانجليزية
اولا التي كتبته كما جاء في النص العبري
Genesis 30:27
(CLV) And saying to him is Laban, "If, pray, I find grace in your eyes! I augur that Yahweh's blessing me is due to your coming.
(Darby) And Laban said to him, I pray thee, if I have found favour in thine eyes I have discovered that Jehovah has blessed me for thy sake.
(DRB) Laban said to him: Let me find favour in thy sight: I have learned, by experience, that God hath blessed me for thy sake.
(ESV) But Laban said to him, "If I have found favor in your sight, I have learned by divination that[11] the LORD has blessed me because of you.
(ERV) Laban said to him, "Please, let me say something. I know that the LORD has blessed me because of you.
(GLB) Laban sprach zu ihm: Laß mich Gnade vor deinen Augen finden. Ich spüre, daß mich der HERR segnet um deinetwillen;
(GNB) Laban said to him, "Let me say this: I have learned by divination that the LORD has blessed me because of you.
(GW) Laban replied, "Listen to me. I've learned from the signs I've seen that the LORD has blessed me because of you."
(LBP) And Laban said to Jacob, If I have found favor in your eyes, I have proven by experience that the LORD has blessed me for your sake.
(nrs) But Laban said to him, "If you will allow me to say so, I have learned by divination that the Lord has blessed me because of you;
(NWT) Then La'ban said to him: "If, now, I have found favor in your eyes,I have taken the omens to the effect that Jehovah is blessing me due to you."
(TRC) Then said Laban unto him: If I have found favour in thy sight (for I suppose that the LORD(God) hath blessed me for thy sake)
(Tyndale) Than sayde Laban vnto hi: If I haue fownde fauoure in thy syghte (for I suppose yt the LORde hath blessed me for thy sake)
(Wycliffe) Laban seide to hym, Fynde Y grace in thi siyt, Y haue lerned bi experience that God blesside me for thee;
(YLT) And Laban saith unto him, `If, I pray thee, I have found grace in thine eyes I have observed diligently that Jehovah doth bless me for thy sake.'
ثانيى التي اضافت جملة ابقي او ابقي هني لشرح المعني مع توضيح انها اضافه تفسيرية. ( بان كتبتها بخط مائل او لون مختلف او بين اقواس )
(ACV) And Laban said to him, If now I have found favor in thine eyes, [tarry, for] I have learned by experience that LORD has blessed me for thy sake.
(AESV Torah) Laban said to him, "If now I have found favour in your eyes, stay here, for I have divined that Mar-Yah has blessed me for your sake."
(AKJ) And Laban said to him, I pray you, if I have found favor in your eyes, tarry: for I have learned by experience that the LORD has blessed me for your sake.
(ASV) And Laban said unto him, If now I have found favor in thine eyes, tarry: for I have divined that Jehovah hath blessed me for thy sake.
(BBE) And Laban said, If you will let me say so, do not go away; for I have seen by the signs that the Lord has been good to me because of you.
(VW) And Laban said to him, Please stay, if I have found favor in your eyes, for I have observed the signs that Jehovah has blessed me because of you.
(Bishops) To whom Laban aunswered: I pray thee, yf I haue founde fauour in thy syght [tary]: for I haue proued that the Lorde blessed me for thy sake.
(CEV) But Laban told him, "If you really are my friend, stay on, and I'll pay whatever you ask. I'm sure the LORD has blessed me because of you."
(Geneva) To whom Laban answered, If I haue nowe found fauour in thy sight tarie: I haue perceiued that the Lord hath blessed me for thy sake.
(HCSB-r) But Laban said to him, "If I have found favor in your sight, [stay.] I have learned by divination that the Lord has blessed me because of you."
(HNV) Lavan said to him, "If now I have found favor in your eyes, stay here, for I have divined that the LORD has blessed me for your sake."
(csb) But Laban said to him, "If I have found favor in your sight, [stay.] I have learned by divination that the Lord has blessed me because of you."
(IAV) And Laban said unto him, I pray thee, if I have found favour in thine eyes, tarry: for I have learned by experience that ADONAI hath blessed me for thy sake.
(ISRAV) And Lavan said unto him, I pray thee, if I have found favour in thine eyes, tarry: for I have learned by experience that ADONAI hath blessed me for thy sake.
(JST) And Laban said unto him, I pray thee, if I have found favor in thine eyes, tarry; for I have learned by experience that the Lord hath blessed me for thy sake.
(JOSMTH) And Laban said unto him, I pray thee, if I have found favor in thine eyes, tarry; for I have learned by experience that the Lord hath blessed me for thy sake.
(KJ2000) And Laban said unto him, I pray you, if I have found favor in your eyes, tarry: for I have learned by experience that the LORD has blessed me for your sake.
(KJV) And Laban said unto him, I pray thee, if I have found favour in thine eyes, tarry: for I have learned by experience that the LORD hath blessed me for thy sake.
(KJV-1611) And Laban said vnto him, I pray thee, if I haue found fauour in thine eyes, tary: for I haue learned by experience, that the LORD hath blessed me for thy sake.
(KJV21) And Laban said unto him, "I pray thee, if I have found favor in thine eyes, tarry; for I have learned by experience that the LORD hath blessed me for thy sake."
(KJVA) And Laban said unto him, I pray thee, if I have found favour in thine eyes, tarry: for I have learned by experience that the LORD hath blessed me for thy sake.
(LITV) And Laban said to him, Please, if I have found favor in your eyes, stay. I have seen omens, also Jehovah has blessed me because of you.
(MKJV) And Laban said to him, Please, if I have found favor in your eyes, stay. For I have seen omens, that Jehovah has blessed me for your sake.
(nas) But Laban said to him, "If now it [545] pleases you, {stay with me;} I have divined that (901) the LORD has blessed me on your account."
(NCV) Laban said to him, "If I have pleased you, please stay. I know the Lord has blessed me because of you.
(NET.) But Laban said to him, "If I have found favor in your sight, please stay here, for I have learned by divination that the Lord has blessed me on account of you."
(NIVUK) But Laban said to him, If I have found favour in your eyes, please stay. I have learned by divination that the LORD has blessed me because of you.
(NLV) But Laban said to him, 'If now it pleases you, stay with me. I have learned that the Lord has brought good to me because of you.'
(RNKJV) And Laban said unto him, I pray thee, if I have found favour in thine eyes, tarry: for I have learned by experience that YHVH hath blessed me for thy sake.
(RV) And Laban said unto him, If now I have found favour in thine eyes, tarry: for I have divined that the LORD hath blessed me for thy sake.
(TMB) And Laban said unto him, "I pray thee, if I have found favor in thine eyes, tarry; for I have learned by experience that the LORD hath blessed me for thy sake."
(UPDV) And Laban said to him, If now I have found favor in your eyes, [tarry]: [for] I have used magic and [found that] Yahweh has blessed me for your sake.
(Webster) And Laban said to him, I pray thee, if I have found favor in thine eyes, tarry: for I have learned by experience, that the LORD hath blessed me for thy sake.
فنفهم من هذا ان العدد الاصلي لايوجد به شيئ ناقص او ضائع ولكن لان المعنى قد لا يتضح للبعض فكثير من الترجمات وضعت كلمه لشرح المعني اكثر ولكن لم تقفز اي منهم لاستنتاج خطأ ان العدد به بعض الكلمات ضائعة .
فتاكدنا انه لايوجد اي شيئ ضائع في العدد
وعلي سبيل المثال ترجمات تضع شواهد وتعليقات نقدية
And Laban said unto him, I pray thee, if I have found favour in thine eyes, [tarry: for] I have learned by experience that the LORD hath blessed me for thy sake. |
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And Laban said to him, "Please stay, if I have found favor in your eyes, for I have learned by experience that the LORD has blessed me for your sake." |
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"Please listen to me," Laban replied. "I have become wealthy, for* the LORD has blessed me because of you. Footnote: |
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But Laban said to him, "If I have found favor in your eyes, please stay. I have learned by divination that* the LORD has blessed me because of you." Footnote: |
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But Laban said to him, "If I have found favor in your sight, I have learned by divination that* the LORD has blessed me because of you. Footnote: |
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Y Labán le respondió: Halle yo ahora gracia en tus ojos, y quédate; he experimentado que Jehová me ha bendecido por tu causa. |
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But Laban said to him, "If now *it pleases you, stay with me; I have divined that the LORD has blessed me on your account." |
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But Laban said to him, "If you will allow me to say so, I have learned by divination that the LORD has blessed me because of you; |
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And Laban said unto him, If now I have found favor in thine eyes, [tarry]: [for] I have divined that Jehovah hath blessed me for thy sake. |
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And Laban saith unto him, `If, I pray thee, I have found grace in thine eyes -- I have observed diligently that Jehovah doth bless me for thy sake.' |
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And Laban said to him, I pray thee, if I have found favour in thine eyes -- I have discovered that Jehovah has blessed me for thy sake. |
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And Laban said to him, I pray thee, if I have found favor in thine eyes, [tarry: for] I have learned by experience, that the LORD hath blessed me for thy sake. |
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Lavan said to him, "If now I have found favor in your eyes, stay here, for I have divined that the LORD has blessed me for your sake." |
فبهذا اعتقد تاكدنا اكثر انه لايوجد اي تعليق ولا اي اشارة الي ان هناك كلمات ضائعة بل العدد كامل
التراجم القديمة
الفلجاتا للقديس جيروم من القرن الرابع
(clVulgate) Ait illi Laban: Inveniam gratiam in conspectu tuo, experimento didici, quia benedixerit mihi Deus propter te:
(Vulgate) ait ei Laban inveniam gratiam in conspectu tuo experimento didici quod benedixerit mihi Deus propter te
Laban said to him: Let me find favour in thy sight: I have learned, by experience, that God hath blessed me for thy sake.
وايضا البشيتا
من القرن الرابع وترجمتها للدكتور لمزا
(Lamsa) And Laban said to Jacob, If I have found favor in your eyes, I have proven by experience that the LORD has blessed me for your sake.
والسرياينة القديمة من القرن الثالث الميلادي
وغيرها الكثير
وبالطبع اقدم من ذلك بكثير هو الترجمة السبعينية
(LXX) εἶπεν δὲ αὐτῷ Λαβαν Εἰ εὗρον χάριν ἐναντίον σου, οἰωνισάμην ἄν· εὐλόγησεν γάρ με ὁ θεὸς τῇ σῇ εἰσόδῳ.
(Brenton) And Laban said to him, If I have found grace in thy sight, I would augur well, for the Lord has blessed me at thy coming in.
(ABP+) [3saidG2036 1AndG1161 4to himG1473 2Laban],G* IfG1487 I foundG2147 favorG5484 beforeG1726 you,G1473 could I foretellG3634.3 even --G302 [2blessedG2127 3meG1473 G3588 1God]G2316 in G3588 yourG4674 entrance.G1529
(ABP-G+) ειπεG2036 δεG1161 αυτωG1473 ΛαβανG* ειG1487 ευρονG2147 χαρινG5484 εναντιονG1726 σουG1473 οιωνισαμηνG3634.3 ανG302 ευλογησεG2127 μεG1473 οG3588 θεοςG2316 τηG3588 σηG4674 εισοδωG1529
وكل النصوص العبري ايضا تؤكد ذلك
בראשית 30:27 Hebrew OT: BHS (Consonants Only)
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ויאמר אליו לבן אם־נא מצאתי חן בעיניך נחשתי ויברכני יהוה בגללך׃
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בראשית 30:27 Hebrew OT: Westminster Leningrad Codex
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וַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֵלָיו֙ לָבָ֔ן אִם־נָ֛א מָצָ֥אתִי חֵ֖ן בְּעֵינֶ֑יךָ נִחַ֕שְׁתִּי וַיְבָרֲכֵ֥נִי יְהוָ֖ה בִּגְלָלֶֽךָ׃
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בראשית 30:27 Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants Only)
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ויאמר אליו לבן אם־נא מצאתי חן בעיניך נחשתי ויברכני יהוה בגללך׃
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בראשית 30:27 Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants & Vowels)
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וַיֹּאמֶר אֵלָיו לָבָן אִם־נָא מָצָאתִי חֵן בְּעֵינֶיךָ נִחַשְׁתִּי וַיְבָרֲכֵנִי יְהוָה בִּגְלָלֶךָ׃
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בראשית 30:27 Hebrew OT: Aleppo Codex
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כז ויאמר אליו לבן אם נא מצאתי חן בעיניך נחשתי ויברכני יהוה בגללך
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בראשית 30:27 Hebrew Bible
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ויאמר אליו לבן אם נא מצאתי חן בעיניך נחשתי ויברכני יהוה בגללך׃
(BHS) וַיֹּאמֶר אֵלָיו לָבָן אִם־נָא מָצָאתִי חֵן בְּעֵינֶיךָ נִחַשְׁתִּי וַיְבָרֲכֵנִי יְהוָה בִּגְלָלֶךָ׃
(BHS+) וַיֹּאמֶר559 אֵלָיו לָבָן אִמ־נָא מָצָאתִי4672 חֵן בְּעֵינֶיךָ נִחַשְׁתִּי5172 וַיְבָרֲכֵנִי יְהוָה3068 בִּגְלָלֶךָ1558
(WLC) וַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֵלָיו֙ לָבָ֔ן אִמ־ןָ֛א מָצָ֥אתִי חֵ֖ן בְּעֵינֶ֑יךָ נִחַ֕שְׁתִּי וַיְבָרֲכֵ֥נִי יְהוָ֖ה בִּגְלָלֶֽךָ׃
(IHOT+) ויאמרH559 said אליוH413 unto לבןH3837 And Laban אםH518 if נאH4994 him, I pray thee, מצאתיH4672 I have found חןH2580 favor בעיניךH5869 in thine eyes, נחשׁתיH5172 I have learned by experience ויברכניH1288 hath blessed יהוהH3068 that the LORD בגללך׃H1558 me for thy sake.
(HOT) ויאמר אליו לבן אם־נא מצאתי חן בעיניך נחשׁתי ויברכני יהוה בגללך׃
(HOT+) ויאמרH559 אליוH413 לבןH3837 אםH518 נאH4994 מצאתיH4672 חןH2580 בעיניךH5869 נחשׁתיH5172 ויברכניH1288 יהוהH3068 בגללך׃H1558
(JPS) And Laban said unto him: 'If now I have found favour in thine eyes I have observed the signs, and the LORD hath blessed me for thy sake.'
وايضا النص السامري
حسب ترجمة الكاهن السامري ابو الحسن اسحاق الصوري
سبب تعليق هامش اليسوعية بهذا ان الذين كتبوا الهوامش النقدية لم يفهموا العدد جيدا وحسب قاعدة النقد النصي القراءه الحاده هي الاصح وايضا قاعدة القراءة التي هي السبب في قراءات اخري هي الاصح فهذا يؤكد ايضا النص التقليدي
ولكن العدد بسهوله يفهم بفهم تعبير " ليتني اجد نعمة في عينك " وهو تعبير يعبر عن طلب صداقة وتعاطف ونعمة
ونري سياق الكلام
سفر التكوين 30
30: 25 و حدث لما ولدت راحيل يوسف ان يعقوب قال للابان اصرفني لاذهب الى مكاني و الى ارضي
30: 26 اعطني نسائي و اولادي الذين خدمتك بهم فاذهب لانك انت تعلم خدمتي التي خدمتك
30: 27 فقال له لابان ليتني اجد نعمة في عينيك قد تفاءلت فباركني الرب بسببك
30: 28 و قال عين لي اجرتك فاعطيك
30: 29 فقال له انت تعلم ماذا خدمتك و ماذا صارت مواشيك معي
30: 30 لان ما كان لك قبلي قليل فقد اتسع الى كثير و باركك الرب في اثري و الان متى اعمل انا ايضا لبيتي
فما هي النعمة التي يطلبها لابان ؟ بالطبع هي ان يبقي معه يعقوب لان بيته تبارك كثيرا بسبب يعقوب فهو لا يحتاج ان يكرر تعبير ان تبقي معي فهو مفهوم ولهذا لم يذكره العدد العبري ولكن بعض التراجم ارادت ان تفسره اكثر فوضعت اضافه تفسيرية ولكن الاصل العبري والمخطوطات والترجمات القديمة من قبل الميلاد وبعده تؤكد انه لايوجد اي حزف
ولهذا تعليق اليسوعية خطأ ولا يوجد دليل عليه
والمجد لله دائما