هل لوقا يقول سبعين ان اثنين وسبعين رسول؟ لوقا 10: 17



Holy_bible_1



الشبهة



البعض يدعي ان العدد في لوقا 10: 17 محرف لان بعض الترجمات والمخطوطات القديمة تقول اثنين وسبعين وليس سبعين



الرد



في البداية شرحت بالادلة موضوع سابق شبه متطابق في لوقا 10: 1 عن هل سبعين ام اثنين وسبعين

الرد على شبهة كم عدد رسل السيد المسيح؟ سبعين ام اثنين وسبعين؟

فللرد ندرس التراجم المختلفة والمخطوطات ثم ندرس الأدلة الداخلية أيضا لنتاكد هل القراءة التقليدية (سبعين) هي الصحيحة ام لا

التراجم المختلفة

10 :17 فرجع السبعون بفرح قائلين يا رب حتى الشياطين تخضع لنا باسمك

اولا التي تحتوي على 70

(Murdock) And the seventy whom he sent forth, returned with great joy, and say to him: Our Lord, even the demons were subject to us, in thy name.


(ALT) Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subjected to us in Your name."


(Phillips) 17-20 Later the seventy came back full of joy. "Lord," they said, "even evil spirits obey us when we use your name!"


(ACV) And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are made subject to us in thy name.


(AKJ) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject to us through your name.


(ALTNT) Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subjected to us in Your name."


(AMP) The seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name!


(ASV) And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject unto us in thy name.


(BBE) And the seventy came back with joy, saying, Lord, even the evil spirits are under our power in your name.


(VW) Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.


(Bishops) And the seuentie turned agayne with ioy, saying: Lord, euen the [very] deuils are subdued to vs through thy name.


(CENT) The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name."


(CJB) The seventy came back jubilant. "Lord," they said, "with your power, even the demons submit to us!"


(Mace) At length the seventy return'd with great joy, saying, Lord, even the demons have been made subject to us by virtue of your name.


(Darby) And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject to us through thy name.


(DIA) Having returned and the seventy with joy, saying: O lord, and the demons are subject to us in the name of thee.


(EMTV) Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name."


(Etheridge) And the seventy whom he had sent, returned with great joy, saying to him, Our Lord, the demons also are subjected to us through thy name.


(EVID) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject to us through your name.


(Geneva) And the seuentie turned againe with ioy, saying, Lord, euen the deuils are subdued to vs through thy Name.


(GDBY_NT) And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subordinated to us in thy name.


(GW) The 70 disciples came back very happy. They said, "Lord, even demons obey us when we use the power and authority of your name!"


(HCSB-r) The Seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in Your name."


(HNV) The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!"


(csb) The Seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in Your name."


(IAV NC) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.


(IAV) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.


(ISRAV) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.


(ISV) The seventy came back and joyously reported, "Lord, even the demons are submitting to us in your name!"


(JST) And he said unto his disciples, He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him who sent me.


(JOSMTH) And he said unto his disciples, He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him who sent me.


(KJ2000) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject unto us through your name.


(KJVCNT) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through your name.


(KJCNT) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through your name.


(KJV) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.


(KJV-Clar) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through your name.


(KJV-1611) And the seuenty returned againe with ioy, saying, Lord, euen the deuils are subiect vnto vs through thy name.


(KJV21) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, "Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy name."


(KJVA) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.


(LBP) So the seventy whom he had sent returned with great joy, and they said to him, Our Lord, even the demons have submitted to us in your name.


(LitNT) AND RETURNED THE SEVENTY WITH JOY, SAYING, LORD, EVEN THE DEMONS ARE SUBJECT TO US THROUGH NAME THY.


(LITV) And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject to us through Your Name.


(LONT) And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Master, even the demons are subject to us, through your name.


(MKJV) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject to us through Your name.


(Moffatt NT) The seventy came back with joy. "Lord," they said, "the very daemons obey us in your name."


(MSG) The seventy came back triumphant. "Master, even the demons danced to your tune!"


(nas) The seventy [248] returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the (483) demons are subject to us in Your name."


(NAS+) The seventy1440 returned5290 with joy5479 , saying3004 , "Lord2962 , even2532 the demons1140 are subject5293 to us in Your name3686 ."


(NKJV) Then the seventy[e] returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”

(NLV) The seventy came back full of joy. They said, 'Lord, even the demons obeyed us when we used Your name.'


(Noyes NT) And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject to us in thy name.


(nrs) The seventy [102] returned with joy, saying, "Lord, in your name even the demons submit to us!"


(NRSV) The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, in your name even the demons submit to us!"


(nsn+) The seventy1440 returned5290 with joy5479 , saying3004 , "Lord2962 , even2532 the demons1140 are subject5293 to us in Your name3686 ."


(NWT) Then the seventy returned with joy, saying: "Lord, even the demons are made subject to us by the use of your name."


(OrthJBC) And the Shivim returned with simcha, saying, "Adoneinu, even the shedim submit to us b'Shem of you (Rebbe Melech HaMoshiach Yehoshua)."


(Murdock R) And the seventy whom he sent forth, returned with great joy, and say to him: Our Lord, even the demons were subject to us, in your name.


(RNKJV) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Rabbi, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.


(RSVA) The seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!"


(RV) And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us in thy name.


(RYLT-NT) And the seventy turned back with joy, saying, 'Sir, and the demons are being subjected to us in your name;'

(TMB) And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, "Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy name."


(TRC) (And) The seventy returned again with joy saying: Lord even the very devils are subdued to us thorow thy name.


(Tyndale) And the sevetie returned agayne with ioye sayinge: Lorde even the very devyls are subdued to vs thorowe thy name.


(Webster) And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the demons are subject to us through thy name.


(Wesley's) And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject to us thro' thy name.


(WESNT) And the seventy returned with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject to us thro' thy name.


(WMSNT) Now the seventy returned and joyously reported, "Lord, even the demons are submitting to us in your name."


(WNT) When the Seventy returned, they exclaimed joyfully, "Master, even the demons submit to us when we utter your name."


(WORNT) And the seventy returned with joy saying, Lord, even the devils are subject to us through thy name.


(WTNT) ¶ The seventy returned again with joy saying: Lord even the very devils are subdued to us thorow thy name.


(YLT) And the seventy turned back with joy, saying, `Sir, and the demons are being subjected to us in thy name;'


التراجم الانجليزية التي تحتوي على 72


(CEV) When the seventy-two followers returned, they were excited and said, "Lord, even the demons obeyed when we spoke in your name!"


(DRB) And the seventy-two returned with joy, saying: Lord, the devils also are subject to us in thy name.


(ESV) The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!"


(GNB) The seventy-two men came back in great joy. "Lord," they said, "even the demons obeyed us when we gave them a command in your name!"


(NET.) Then the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name!"


(NIV) The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."


(Wycliffe) And the two and seuenti disciplis turneden ayen with ioye, and seiden, Lord, also deuelis ben suget to vs in thi name.



ونري ان الغالبية من التراجم وضحت ان العدد 70 رسول



النسخ اليوناني


(GNT) Υπέστρεψαν δὲ οἱ ἑβδομήκοντα μετὰ χαρᾶς λέγοντες· Κύριε, καὶ τὰ δαιμόνια ὑποτάσσεται ἡμῖν ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου.


(ABP+) [4returnedG5290 1AndG1161 2theG3588 3seventy]G1440 withG3326 joy,G5479 saying,G3004 O Lord,G2962 evenG2532 theG3588 demonsG1140 are submittedG5293 to usG1473 inG1722 G3588 your name.G3686 G1473


(GNT-V) υπεστρεψαν δε οι εβδομηκοντα Aδυο μετα χαρας λεγοντες κυριε και τα δαιμονια υποτασσεται ημιν εν τω ονοματι σου


(Metaglottisis) Επέστρεψαν, λοιπόν, οι εβδομήντα [δύο] με χαρά, λέγοντας: «Κύριε, και τα δαιμόνια υποτάσσονται σεμάς στο όνομά σου».


(SNT) υπεστρεψαν δε οι εβδομηκοντα μετα χαρας λεγοντες κυριε και τα δαιμονια υποτασσεται ημιν εν τω ονοματι σου


(Vamvas) Υπέστρεψαν δε οι εβδομήκοντα μετά χαράς, λέγοντες· Κύριε, και τα δαιμόνια υποτάσσονται εις ημάς εν τω ονόματί σου.



Nestle Greek New Testament 1904
Ὑπέστρεψαν δὲ οἱ ἑβδομήκοντα μετὰ χαρᾶς λέγοντες Κύριε, καὶ τὰ δαιμόνια ὑποτάσσεται ἡμῖν ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου.

RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Ὑπέστρεψαν δὲ οἱ ἑβδομήκοντα μετὰ χαρᾶς, λέγοντες, Κύριε, καὶ τὰ δαιμόνια ὑποτάσσεται ἡμῖν ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου.

Greek Orthodox Church 1904
Ὑπέστρεψαν δὲ οἱ ἑβδομήκοντα μετὰ χαρᾶς λέγοντες· Κύριε, καὶ τὰ δαιμόνια ὑποτάσσεται ἡμῖν ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου.

Tischendorf 8th Edition
Ὑπέστρεψαν δὲ οἱ ἑβδομήκοντα μετὰ χαρᾶς λέγοντες· κύριε, καὶ τὰ δαιμόνια ὑποτάσσεται ἡμῖν ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου.

Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
Ὑπέστρεψαν δὲ οἱ ἑβδομήκοντα μετὰ χαρᾶς, λέγοντες, Κύριε, καὶ τὰ δαιμόνια ὑποτάσσεται ἡμῖν ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου.

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
Ὑπέστρεψαν δὲ οἱ ἑβδομήκοντα μετὰ χαρᾶς λέγοντες Κύριε καὶ τὰ δαιμόνια ὑποτάσσεται ἡμῖν ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου

Tischendorf 8th Ed. w/o Diacritics
υπεστρεψαν δε οι εβδομηκοντα μετα χαρας λεγοντες κυριε και τα δαιμονια υποτασσεται ημιν εν τω ονοματι σου

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
υπεστρεψαν δε οι εβδομηκοντα μετα χαρας λεγοντες κυριε και τα δαιμονια υποτασσεται ημιν εν τω ονοματι σου

Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894 w/o Diacritics
Υπεστρεψαν δε οι εβδομηκοντα μετα χαρας, λεγοντες, Κυριε, και τα δαιμονια υποτασσεται ημιν εν τω ονοματι σου.

Byzantine/Majority Text (2000) w/o Diacritics
υπεστρεψαν δε οι εβδομηκοντα μετα χαρας λεγοντες κυριε και τα δαιμονια υποτασσεται ημιν εν τω ονοματι σου



النسخة الوحيدة اليوناني التي تحتوي على 72 هو نسخ وستكوت وبعض نسخها وضعت اثنين بين قوسين

Westcott and Hort 1881
Ὑπέστρεψαν δὲ οἱ ἑβδομήκοντα δύο μετὰ χαρᾶς λέγοντες Κύριε, καὶ τὰ δαιμόνια ὑποτάσσεται ἡμῖν ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου.



وبهذا يكون الغالبية من النسخ تقليديه ونقديه تؤكد ان العدد الصحيح 70



المخطوطات

بالفعل قلة من المخطوطات بها قراءة 72 مثل الفاتيكانية و p75 والصعيدي والفلجاتا ولكن الفلجاتا لها قصة مهم ساعود اليها وسنكتشف انها دليل تأكيد صحة 70 وليس 72 لاحقا



اما المخطوطات التي تشهد للقراءة التقليدية المسلمة 70

السينائية من القرن الرابع

ويشير المشكك بسهم ويقول اثنين ولا ادري ماذا يقصد ؟ فهل هو لم يعرف ماهو المكتوب بها وظن انها اثنين وسبعين ام اعتقد ان سيضيف اثنين بنفسه ليقول ان السينائية تقول اثنين وسبعين ( اي انه هو المحرف ) ؟

السينائية بها سبعين وتشهد بان العدد الصحيح هو سبعين

صورتها

وبها سبعين



الاسكندرية من القرن الخامس

ويكرر فعلته ويشير بسهم ويكتب عليه اثنين ( دو ) رغم ان المخطوطه تحتوي علي سبعين فقط

وبعد ذلك يشير الي ( كاي ) وهو ( كلمة و ايضا ) ويقول انها مهمه

وللاكد ان الاسكندرية بها سبعين فقط

صورتها

ونجد بها بوضوح سبعين



الافرايمية من الخامس

ونصها

مخطوط واشنطون