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هل العدد الذي يقول ونحو الساعة السادسة محرف؟ يو 19: 14



Holy_bible_1



الشبهة



يوحنا 19-14

١٤وَكَانَ اسْتِعْدَادُ الْفِصْحِ، وَنَحْوُ السَّاعَةِ السَّادِسَةِ. فَقَالَ لِلْيَهُودِ:"هُوَذَا مَلِكُكُمْ!".

يقول ريتشارد سيمون :

بطرس أسقف الإسكندرية ادعي ان النص في يوحنا يجب أن يقرأ: نحو الساعة الثالثة. مصرحا بأن النص هكذا كتبه يوحنا ومحفوظ بأمانة في وثائق كنيسة أفسس المقدسة



الرد



الحقيقة ما يقوله المشكك غير امين بالمرة وسندرس معا العدد من الناحية النقدية ثم المقولة الغير صحيحة التي استشهد بها

أولا التي ذكرت السادسة

فانديك

14 وَكَانَ اسْتِعْدَادُ الْفِصْحِ وَنَحْوُ السَّاعَةِ السَّادِسَةِ. فَقَالَ لِلْيَهُودِ: «هُوَذَا مَلِكُكُمْ».

الحياة

14 وكان الوقت نحو السادسة في يوم الإعداد للفصح. وقال بيلاطس لليهود: «ها هو ملككم

المشتركة

14 وكان ذلك يوم الجمعة، يوم التهيئة للفصح، والوقت نحو الظهر. فقال لليهود: ((ها هو ملككم! ))

اليسوعية

14 وكان ذلك اليوم يوم تهيئة الفصح، والساعة تقارب الظهر. فقال لليهود: (( هاهوذا ملككم! ))

البولسية

يو-19-14: وكانَتْ تَهْيئَةُ الفِصْحِ، وكانَ نحوُ السَّاعةِ السَّادِسة. - ثُمَّ قالَ لِلْيَهود: "ها هُوَذا مَلِكُكم !"

الكاثوليكية

يو-19-14: وكانَ ذلكَ اليَومُ يَومَ تَهيِئَةِ الفِصْح، والسَّاعةُ تُقارِبُ الظُّهْر. فقالَ لِليَهود: (( هاهُوَذا مَلِكُكم! ))

اما التي كتبت الثالثة

لا يوجد

الإنجليزية

John 19:14


(Murdock) And it was the preparation for the passover; and it was about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews: Behold, your king.


(ALT) Now it was [the] preparation [day] of the Passover, and [it was] about the sixth hour [i.e. 6:00 a.m. Roman time or 12:00 noon Jewish time]. And he says to the Jews, "Look! Yourp king!"


(ACV) Now it was the Preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he says to the Jews, Look at your king!


(AKJ) And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he said to the Jews, Behold your King!


(ALTNT) Now it was [the] preparation [day] of the Passover, and [it was] about the sixth hour [i.e. 6:00 a.m. Roman time or 12:00 noon Jewish time]. And he says to the Jews, "Look! Your* king!"


(AMP) Now it was the day of Preparation for the Passover, and it was about the sixth hour (about twelve o'clock noon). He said to the Jews, See, [here is] your King!


(AUV-NT) Now it was about six o’clock in the morning [Note: This was according to Roman time, but if Jewish time were meant, it would have been 12 noon] on the Day of Preparation for the Passover Festival. [Note: This would be the day before the Passover Festival]. And Pilate said to the Jews, “Look, [here is] your king!”


(ASV) Now it was the Preparation of the passover: it was about the sixth hour. And he saith unto the Jews, Behold, your King!


(BBE) It was the day when they made ready for the Passover; and it was about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, There is your King!


(VW) Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, Behold your King!


(Bishops) It was the preparyng of ye Passouer, and about the sixt houre: And he sayth vnto the Iewes, beholde your kyng.


(CENT) Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover, about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, "Behold your King!"


(CEV) It was about noon on the day before Passover, and Pilate said to the crowd, "Look at your king!"


(CJB) it was about noon on Preparation Day for Pesach. He said to the Judeans, "Here's your king!"


(Mace) it was then about the sixth hour of the day before the sabbath of the passover: and he said to the Jews, behold your king.


(Darby) (now it was the preparation of the passover; it was about the sixth hour;) and he says to the Jews, Behold your king!


(DIA) (it was and a preparation of the passover, hour and about sixth;)and he says to the Jews: See the king of you.


(DRB) And it was the parasceve of the pasch, about the sixth hour: and he saith to the Jews: Behold your king.


(EMTV) Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, "Behold your King!"


(ESV) Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover. It was about the sixth hour.[2] He said to the Jews, "Behold your King!"


(ERV) It was now almost noon on Preparation day of Passover week. Pilate said to the Jews, "Here is your king!"


(Etheridge) And it was the preparation for the petscha. AND it was about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jihudoyee, Behold your king!


(EVID) And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he said to the Jews, Behold your King!


(Geneva) And it was the Preparation of the Passeouer, and about the sixt houre: and hee sayde vnto the Iewes, Beholde your King.


(GNB) It was then almost noon of the day before the Passover. Pilate said to the people, "Here is your king!"


(GDBY_NT) And it was the preparation of the passover: and was about the sixth hour. And he says to the Jews, Behold, your King!


(GW) The time was about six o'clock in the morning on the Friday of the Passover festival. Pilate said to the Jews, "Look, here's your king!"


(HCSB-r) It was the preparation day for the Passover, and it was about six in the morning. Then he told the Jews, "Here is your king!"


(HNV) Now it was the Preparation Day of the Pesach, at about the sixth hour. He said to the Judeans, "Behold, your King!"


(csb) It was the preparation day for the Passover, and it was about six in the morning. Then he told the Jews, "Here is your king!"


(IAV) And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!


(ISV) Now it was the Preparation Day for the Passover, about twelve noon. He said to the Jews, "Here is your king!"


(JMNT) Now it was [the] preparation (= the Preparation Day) of the Passover [Feast; Festival], being about the sixth hour (= noon time), and he proceeds saying to the Jews, "Look at and consider your king!"


(JST) And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!


(JOSMTH) And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!


(KJ2000) And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he said unto the Jews, Behold your King!


(KJVCNT) And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he says unto the Jews, Behold your King!


(KJCNT) And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he says unto the Jews, Behold your King!


(KJV) And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!


(KJV-Clar) And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he says unto the Jews, Behold your King!


(KJV-1611) And it was the preparation of the Passeouer, and about the sixt houre: and he saith vnto the Iewes, Beholde your King.


(KJV21) And it was the Preparation of the Passover and about the sixth hour, and Pilate said unto the Jews, "Behold your king!"


(KJVA) And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!


(LBP) It was Friday of the passover, and it was about six o?clock; and he said to the Jews, Behold your king!


(LEB) (Now it was the day of preparation of the Passover; it was about the sixth hour.) And he said to the Jews, "Behold your king!"


(LITV) And it was the Preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, Behold, your King!


(LONT) (Now it was the preparation of the Paschal Sabbath, about the sixth hour.) And he said to the Jews, Behold your King.


(MKJV) And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, Behold your king!


(Moffatt NT) (it was the day of Preparation for the passover, about noon). "There is your king!" he said to the Jews.


(MSG) It was the preparation day for Passover. The hour was noon. Pilate said to the Jews, "Here is your king."


(NCV) It was about noon on Preparation Day of Passover week. Pilate said to the Jews, "Here is your king!"


(NET.) (Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover, about noon.) Pilate said to the Jewish leaders, "Look, here is your king!"


(NET) (Now it was the day of preparation44 for the Passover, about noon.45)46 Pilate47 said to the Jewish leaders,48 "Look, here is your king!"


(NAB-A) It was preparation day for Passover, and it was about noon. And he said to the Jews, Behold, your king!


(NIRV) It was about noon on Preparation Day in Passover Week. "Here is your king," Pilate said to the Jews.


(NIV) It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour. "Here is your king," Pilate said to the Jews.


(NIVUK) It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour. Here is your king, Pilate said to the Jews.


(NKJV) Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, “Behold your King!”

(NLT) It was now about noon of the day of preparation for the Passover. And Pilate said to the people, "Here is your king!"


(NLV) It was the day to get ready for the special religious gathering to remember how the Jews left Egypt. It was about noon. Pilate said to the Jews, 'See, your King!'


(Noyes NT) Now it was the preparation of the passover. It was about the sixth hour. And he saith to the Jews, Behold your king!


(nrs) Now it was the day of Preparation for the Passover; and it was about noon. He said to the Jews, "Here is your King!"


(NRSV) Now it was the day of Preparation for the Passover; and it was about noon. He said to the Jews, "Here is your King!"


(NWT) Now it was preparation of the passover; it was about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews: "See! YOUR king!"


(OrthJBC) Now it was Erev Pesach, the sha'ah (hour, time) it was about the shishit (sixth, the sixth hour, about noon), and Pilate says to those of Yehudah, "Hinei, your Melech!"


(Murdock R) And it was the preparation for the passover; and it was about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews: Behold, your king.


(RNKJV) And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!


(RSVA) Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, "Behold your King!"


(RV) Now it was the Preparation of the passover: it was about the sixth hour. And he saith unto the Jews, Behold, your King!


(RYLT-NT) and it was the preparation of the passover, and as it were the sixth hour, and he said to the Jews, 'Lo, your king!'


(Somali) Haddaba waxay ahayd Maalintii Diyaargarayskii Kormaridda, abbaaraha saacaddii lixaad. Oo wuxuu Yuhuudda ku yidhi, Bal eega boqorkiinna.

(TCNT) It was the Passover Preparation Day, and about noon. Then he said to the Jews: "Here is your King!"


(TMB) And it was the Preparation of the Passover and about the sixth hour, and Pilate said unto the Jews, "Behold your king!"


(TNIV) It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon. "Here is your king," Pilate said to the Jews.


(Translit) en de paraskeuo tos pasxa, ora en os ekte. kai legei tois ioudaiois, ide ho basileus umon.


(TRC) (It was the Sabbath even which falleth in(the day of preparing of) the ester feast, and about the sixth hour) And he said unto the jews: Behold your King.


(Tyndale) It was the Saboth even which falleth in the ester fest and aboute the sixte houre. And he sayde vnto the Iewes: beholde youre kynge.


(UPDV) Now it was the Preparation of the Passover: it was about the sixth hour. And he says to the Jews, Look, your+ King!


(Webster) And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith to the Jews, Behold your King!


(Wesley's) (It was then the preparation of the passover, and about the third hour:) And saith to the Jews, Behold your king.


(WESNT) (It was then the preparation of the passover, and about the third hour:) And saith to the Jews, Behold your king.


(WMSNT) It was the day of Preparation for the Passover, and it was about noon. Then Pilate said to the Jews, "There is your king!"


(WNT) It was the day of Preparation for the Passover, about six o'clock in the morning. Then he said to the Jews, "There is your king!"


(WORNT) (And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour.) And he saith to the Jews, Behold your king. But they cried out,


(WTNT) (It was the saboth even which falleth in the ester feast, and about the sixth hour) And he said unto the jewes: Behold your king.


(Wycliffe) And it was pask eue, as it were the sixte our. And he seith to the Jewis, Lo! youre king.


(WycliffeNT) And it was pask eue, as it were the sixte our. And he seith to the Jewis, Lo! youre king.


(YLT) and it was the preparation of the passover, and as it were the sixth hour, and he saith to the Jews, `Lo, your king!'

اما التي كتبت الثالثة


(CLV) Now it was the preparation of the Passover; the hour was about the third. And he is saying to the Jews, "Lo! your king!"



فالتراجم تؤكد اصالة الساعة السادسة



النصوص اليوناني

(GNT)

ν δὲ παρασκευὴ τοῦ πάσχα, ρα δὲ ὡσεὶ κτη. καὶ λέγει τοῖς ᾿Ιουδαίοις· δε ὁ βασιλεὺς ὑμῶν.

(IGNT+)

ηνG2258 [G5713] δεG1161 [GAND IT WAS "THE" παρασκευηG3904 PREPARATION τουG3588 OF THE πασχαG3957 PASSOVER, "THE" ωραG5610 HOUR δεG1161 AND ωσειG5616 ABOUT εκτηG1623 THE SIXTH;] καιG2532 AND λεγειG3004 [G5719] HE SAYS τοιςG3588 TO THE ιουδαιοιςG2453 JEWS, ιδεG1492 [G5657] οG3588 BEHOLD, βασιλευςG935 υμωνG5216 YOUR KING!

(SNT)

ην δε παρασκευη του πασχα ωρα δε ωσει εκτη και λεγει τοις ιουδαιοις ιδε ο βασιλευς υμων

Nestle Greek New Testament 1904
ἦν δὲ Παρασκευὴ τοῦ πάσχα, ὥρα ἦν ὡς ἕκτη· καὶ λέγει τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις Ἴδε Βασιλεὺς ὑμῶν.

Westcott and Hort 1881
ἦν δὲ παρασκευὴ τοῦ πάσχα, ὥρα ἦν ὡς ἕκτη. καὶ λέγει τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις Ἴδε βασιλεὺς ὑμῶν.

Westcott and Hort / [NA27 variants]
ἦν δὲ παρασκευὴ τοῦ πάσχα, ὥρα ἦν ὡς ἕκτη. καὶ λέγει τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις Ἴδε βασιλεὺς ὑμῶν.

RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
ἦν δὲ Παρασκευὴ τοῦ Πάσχα, ὥρα δὲ ὡσεὶ ἕκτη· καὶ λέγει τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις, Ἴδε, βασιλεὺς ὑμῶν.

Greek Orthodox Church 1904
ἦν δὲ παρασκευὴ τοῦ πάσχα, ὥρα δὲ ὡσεὶ ἕκτη· καὶ λέγει τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις· Ἴδε βασιλεὺς ὑμῶν.

Tischendorf 8th Edition
ἦν δὲ παρασκευὴ τοῦ πάσχα, ὥρα ἦν ὡς ἕκτη. καὶ λέγει τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις· ἴδε βασιλεὺς ὑμῶν.

Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
ἦν δὲ Παρασκευὴ τοῦ πάσχα, ὥρα δὲ ὡσεὶ ἕκτη· καὶ λέγει τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις, Ἴδε, βασιλεὺς ὑμῶν.

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
ἦν δὲ παρασκευὴ τοῦ πάσχα ὥρα δὲ ὡσεὶ ἕκτη καὶ λέγει τοῖς Ἰουδαίοις Ἴδε βασιλεὺς ὑμῶν

Westcott and Hort 1881 w/o Diacritics
ην δε παρασκευη του πασχα ωρα ην ως εκτη και λεγει τοις ιουδαιοις ιδε ο βασιλευς υμων

Tischendorf 8th Ed. w/o Diacritics
ην δε παρασκευη του πασχα ωρα ην ως εκτη και λεγει τοις ιουδαιοις ιδε ο βασιλευς υμων

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
ην δε παρασκευη του πασχα ωρα δε ωσει εκτη και λεγει τοις ιουδαιοις ιδε ο βασιλευς υμων

Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894 w/o Diacritics
ην δε Παρασκευη του πασχα, ωρα δε ωσει εκτη· και λεγει τοις Ιουδαιοις, Ιδε, ο βασιλευς υμων.

Byzantine/Majority Text (2000) w/o Diacritics
ην δε παρασκευη του πασχα ωρα δε ωσει εκτη και λεγει τοις ιουδαιοις ιδε ο βασιλευς υμων

Westcott/Hort, UBS4 variants w/o Diacritics
ην δε παρασκευη του πασχα ωρα ην ως εκτη και λεγει τοις ιουδαιοις ιδε ο βασιλευς υμων

فكل النسخ اليوناني كتبت السادسة حتى التي قدمت الاختلافات



المخطوطات

باختصار كل المخطوطات قديمة وحديثة ومن مناطق مختلفة كتبت الساعة السادسة فيما عدا قلة حديثة

مثل L X Δ Ψ 053 واقدمهم ال من الثامن ولكن فقط معهم هامش في السينائية ليس من النص الأصلي ولا التصحيح لانه بخط صغير حديث

ولكن كما قلت بقية المخطوطات تقدم النص التقليدي والساعة السادسة

السينائية

الفاتيكانية

الإسكندرية

فهم اقدم بكثير

بل أيضا بردية 66 الاقدم p66

وغيرها من مخطوطات الخط الكبير

E H I K M S U W Y Γ Θ Λ Π

ومجموعات مخطوطات الخط الصغير وهم بالمئات

f1 f13 Byz



وبعد هذا الترجمات القديمة كلها تؤكد اصالة الساعة السادسة

it vg syrp syrh syrpal copsa copbo arm eth geo

(clVulgate) Erat enim parasceve Paschæ, hora quasi sexta, et dicit Judæis: Ecce rex vester.


(Vulgate) erat autem parasceve paschae hora quasi sexta et dicit Iudaeis ecce rex vester


(NS) ΝΕ ΠΝΑΥ ΔΕ ΝϪΠ СΟΟ ΠΕ ΝΤΠΑΡΑСΚΕΥΗ ΜΠΠΑСΧΑ. ΑΥШ ΠΕϪΑϤ ΝΙΟΥΔΑΙ. ϪΕ ΕΙС ΠΕΤΝΡΡΟ.


(NS-T) ne pnau de nJp soo pe ntparaskeuh mppasca. auw peJaF nioudai. Je eis petnrro.


(Peshita X) WERWBTA HWT DPCXA WAYT HWY AYK $EA $T WAMR LYHWDYA HA MLKKWN ;


(Bohairic) ⲛⲉ ⳿ⲧⲡⲁⲣⲁⲥⲕⲉⲩⲏ ⲇⲉ ⲧⲉ ⳿ⲛⲧⲉ ⲡⲓⲡⲁⲥⲭ ⲛⲉ ⳿ⲫⲛⲁⲩ ⲇⲉ ⳿ⲛⲁϫ ⲡⲉ ⲟⲩⲟϩ ⲛⲁϥϫ ⳿ⲙⲙⲟⲥ ⲡⲉ ⳿ⲛϫ ⲡⲓⲗⲁⲧⲟⲥ ⳿ⲛⲛⲓⲟⲩⲇⲁⲓ ϫ ϩⲏⲡⲡⲉ ⲓⲥ ⲡⲉⲧⲉⲛⲟⲩⲣⲟ.


(Peshitta) ܘܥܪܘܒܬܐ ܗܘܬ ܕܦܨܚܐ ܘܐܝܬ ܗܘܝ ܐܝܟ ܫܥܐ ܫܬ ܘܐܡܪ ܠܝܗܘܕܝܐ ܗܐ ܡܠܟܟܘܢ ܀


(Peshitta-T) W(RWBT) HWT DPCX) W)YT HWY )YK $() $T W)MR LYHWDY) H) MLKKWN


(Lamsa) It was Friday of the passover, and it was about six oclock; and he said to the Jews, Behold your king!


(Lamsa NT) It was Friday of the passover, and it was about six oÆclock; and he said to the Jews, Behold your king!



واضافة الى كل هذا اقتباسات الإباء الكثيرة

وأيضا إضافة الى الكم الضخم من الأدلة الخارجية أيضا الأدلة الداخلية

فحسب قاعدة

The hardest reading is best

القراءه الاصعب هي الافضل

Difficilior lectio potior or Proclivi scriptioni praestat ardua

فالثالثة هو واضح انها تاثر بما في انجيل مرقس 15: 25 الذي ذكر الثالثة ولكن السادسة هي القراءة الأصعب التي للناسخ البسيط لا يستوعبها مباشرة فيعتقد انها خطأ من ناسخ سابق فيصححها ولا يدرى انه هو الذي يخطئ

ولكن لو كانت الثالثة هي الأصل فهي ليست قراءة صعبة

ومثلها قاعدة

The reading which could most easily have given rise to the other readings is best.

القراءه التي هي بوضوح السبب في بقية القراءات هي الافضل

فلو كان الأصل الثالثة لا يوجد سبب تغيرها للسادسة ولكن السادسة يوجد سبب وهو ان تصحح للثالثة مثل مرقس 15: 25

ولهذا العلماء تقليديين بل وحتى النقديين اقروا ان القراءة الصحيحة هي السادسة

وعلى سبيل المثال بروس متزجر

an obvious attempt to harmonize the chronology with that of Mk 15.25…. the manuscript evidence is overwhelmingly in support of e[kth


وفليب كامفرت

few manuscripts (K2DSLA *I0 change the "sixth" (e KTT]) hour to the "third" (TpiTTp hour in an attempt to conform John's account to Mark 15:25. The same change in reverse order occurred in some manuscripts in Mark 15:25. According to John's account, Jesus was led away to be crucified around noon. Since this was the day of the preparation for the Passover (the day in which people prepared for the Passover meal), Jesus was being crucified (as the Lamb of God) at the same time the Passover lambs were being slaughtered. Thus, John's timing is significant.



اتي الى مقولة المشكك

بطرس أسقف الإسكندرية ادعي ان النص في يوحنا يجب أن يقرأ: نحو الساعة الثالثة. مصرحا بأن النص هكذا كتبه يوحنا ومحفوظ بأمانة في وثائق كنيسة أفسس المقدسة

الحقيقة ما يقوله المشكك غير صحيح

فما يقوله البابا بطرس أسقف الإسكندرية هو انه كان ينبغي ان نقرأها الثالثة الا ان يجب ان نتبع النصوص المعتمد عليها ومنها انجيل يوحنا الذي كتبته القديس يوحنا الإنجيلي بيده ومحفوظ بعناية الرب موجود في كنيسة افسس....

والسبب هو ان هناك ما يبدوا في الظاهر خلاف في توقيت صلب المسيح ما بين مرقس 15: 25 الذي يقول الثالثة وما بين يوحنا 19: 14 السادسة فلهذا البعض يقول كان يتوقع ان يقول يوحنا الحبيب في انجيله الثالثة ولكن النص المحفوظ بدقة يقول السادسة بوضوح

فمقولة البابا لا تخالف ما أثبته قواعد النقد النصي ولكن يتكلم عن التفسير. فالنص الصحيح التقليدي كما كتبه يوحنا الحبيب السادسة

وبالنسبة لموضوع الثالثة ام السادسة فارجوا الرجوع الى

ميعاد صلب رب المجد. هل صلب الساعة الثالثة ام السادسة؟

فالحقيقة الصحيح هو ما قاله يوحنا الحبيب نحو الساعة السادسة لان هذا يعني انها الساعة الثالثة في قرب نهايتها أي نح نهايتها وقبل بداية السادسة وهذا ما شرحته في الملف السابق



والمجد لله دائما